Heroes of Doxy.me: Data Scientist Diagnoses Russia and Its People
Still living in Western Ukraine, Peter has experienced the invasion more personally than some other citizens. As a data scientist he’s used his skills to aid his country’s cyber efforts—in his free time, he’s sought to understand his country’s enemy as best he can.
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Mary:
So, Peter, it’s been a really difficult five weeks before we talk about your most recent experience. Could you please describe what your life was like at the beginning of 2022? What were you thinking? Were you preparing for an invasion?
Peter:
I talked to my father a lot about that invasion. We just discussed, discussing all of that and we, we understood that that’s, that might happen. Like there was very high probability of that invasion actually. And I was, I haven’t expected, my father started, it can be invasion with like, and they will go, like trying to occupy the cat. I thought that they’ll just go and try to do something with the south, you know, too. But I haven’t expected that we’ll do that, that, you know, they’ll just go with trying to occupy Kiev, but yeah, but I, I was expecting that. I’m not saying that I was preparing for that because I am living in a Western Ukraine actually. I don’t know, close to the Poland actually. It’s like, like 30 minutes. Right. So it’s, it’s really close. I really close to the natal border. So it just, what I was thinking that I can do anything right now. Yeah. But I was expecting that in my actually,
Mary:
Why did you think it might happen in the south?
Peter:
Yeah, I was thinking in that way, because like eight years ago, Russia could occupy territory in that Eastern Ukraine. And my thought was really that it’s very important for Russia to actually we’ll ask you how like to hasn’t passed from, from, from second occupied territory and a dumbass area. So I just thinking that it is really strategically important for them to, to connect these two occupied territories and they also have the occupied territory in Moldova. And that’s why I was thinking that it will just try territories in south of Ukraine and occupying that. But I, I haven’t expected.
Mary:
So when you moved to the capital, you actually felt like that was a good, smart, secure decision for your own safety.
Peter:
Actually, I was not really. I was thinking that that invasion might happen, but if something just happened, I I’ll just able to go back easily. So I was thinking that there are, there is some small probability that the Kiev will be occupied, but I was thinking that I’ll just move to key, then I can just move back easily. So that’s why I wasn’t.
Mary:
Where’s your father concerned? Where’s your father concerned?
Peter:
<inaudible> he said that it can be some that’s happening. So I guess he expected that I’ll be able to evacuate from the queue when, when something happened. Okay.
Mary:
So tell me what your reaction was on February 24th. You probably heard the bombing very early in the morning.
Peter:
Yeah. I moved from back from Kiev, like just, this was my plan, actually have to go to Kiev for half a year just to see the capital and everything. You know, I wasn’t, I wasn’t going back just because I started, you know, I, I would just go back because I had such a plan that I would just want to visit Kiev to live there for some time and just go back. And luckily I went back a couple months before that started.
Mary:
Just tell me what your, the last five weeks have been like for you.
Peter:
I was my initial thought it was actually stay in Ukraine, people, you know, what, what, what I can do it I’ll just do here. You know, I wasn’t really, I was current like the first couple of days and I was thinking how we can, but, but then I just realized that Ukrainian army controls the situation more or less, not like full control, but still, it’s not like everything was decided just to get here, but we’re still really close to Paul. So I was able to go there, but I was thinking that maybe it was better to stay here and help people. I want, you know, doing something related to, you know, something related to the military. I was just doing some volunteering, actually my family and I were preparing some sandwiches and some meals for people that were ever creating from, from Ukraine to Poland, because we have, It’s like really big, a lot of tracks. I know 30 kilometers line and the people were just here and we decided to help somehow with the food. And that’s, that’s what we did in the first day. And you know, also we’re helping organize in my hometown, but this organization wasn’t required. One require anything related to, you know, it’s just like an organizational work, you know?
Mary:
So since that first week who tell me what the last month has been like for you, what have you been doing?
Peter:
As I said on the first week we were volunteering recently, I was just doing some, I was like fighting fraud. If you know what I’m talking about. I know I don’t like that. I just want to say that I had experience in programming and you know, all of that stuff. And I was decided to, to help in that, in that front. Okay. Awesome. It actually, that kind of stuff also with, okay. That’s also, I guess,
Mary:
Have you, as you’ve been working on the cyber aspect of this, were you using skills that you already had honed or did you have to learn some new things?
Peter:
No, that’s, that’s the skills that I already have before I’m doing, I will start in, I was working as I know how it works. People without any additional learning.
Mary:
So Peter, we’ve had to postpone this interview twice. Can you please tell us about what caused the cancellations and what those experiences were like for you, Peter?
Peter:
Yeah, actually I cancelledl it’s we barely have this air raid Sirens and the during trying to stay safe. And that’s why during these sirens, I go to the first floor in the house with two floors and I’m just going down a floor and just cause we don’t have any windows small compared to the, the rules and that it was, I skip that meeting.
Mary:
Yeah. So tell me the pattern of these air raids. What time do they usually happen? Is it predictable?
Peter:
I wouldn’t say they are predictable. Aren’t predict, but the pattern is happening like a couple of times a day. That’s that’s that’s all I can say. We have it like once a day, sometimes like three general or something, something like that. And sometimes addict. So I’m also just waking up and just go to the first floor. Yeah. Are you
Mary:
Living off your parents?
Peter:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mary:
How have these very unpredictable and frightening occurrences affected your health?
Peter:
Actually, I temperature a little bit higher than the normal temperature for the first two weeks. I didn’t, I don’t know why I can say I was, I visited the no. How did the pricing of something? I was just like, yeah. I just had a temperature in Celsius, the normal time purchase, the 36 points and then a normal, it was yeah, just staying at home and after two weeks it’s I go to normal temper.
Mary:
Have you been able to sleep?
Peter:
Yeah. Yeah. And I felt okay, just adjust a little bit higher temperature. And the first day it was actually like 30, 39 and then just dropped to 37 and it was lost for two weeks, But I haven’t found anything, any side effects or something like that. I just felt okay. Just to be a space temperature. Yeah. When I was, I was couple first couple of days because I didn’t really know what’s going to happen next, you know, but when after a couple of first days I realized that, You know, we have support from the last and that’s, that’s really important in our, you know, in our current situation. Yeah. Go ahead.
Mary:
As you watched all the people leave your city and cross the border. What were you thinking about your own situation? Have you considered leaving Ukraine?
Peter:
No, I didn’t have anything. I didn’t have such, such thoughts to, to leave Ukraine. I was, I was thinking that I just want to stay here and help help people while I’m staying in Ukraine.
Mary:
And do you understand why other people are leaving?
Peter:
Yeah. Yeah. Actually most of the people I saw, no, actually from the Eastern Ukraine and they, so they just decided to, to go outside that was really, you know, intense Fighting or how would say it in a, in Eastern Ukraine. So that’s why I understood why they, In my small, less safe Eastern regions of Ukraine
Mary:
Though every day. It’s I mean, it’s so unpredictable. Your, your city has had quite a few attacks lately, right?
Peter:
Yeah. I, I don’t know, I didn’t have any thoughts to evacuate from Ukraine.
Mary:
Do you think it helps that, that you have a secure place with your parents to live? Do you think that influenced your decision?
Peter:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s actually why I decided to stay here because we, we have, we have a house with, very close to Poland, and I think it’s very safe now.
Mary:
Yeah. So have you been able to work during this last month?
Peter:
Yeah, actually first couple of weeks, I was just, That’s why I wasn’t able to work, but after that, after first two weeks and on the third week I started working and work like almost full time. It’s I work, it interrupts when there are air sirens, I was able to work.
Mary:
Wow. So you you’re able to concentrate and work effectively despite these interruptions?
Peter:
Yeah,
Mary:
I think, I think that’s amazing. How much do you listen to the news?
Peter:
Yeah, I don’t actually listen to the news. I think it was contact Some of the groups from the just decided to state with just because it’s kind of overwhelming when I’m trying to read a lot, read about everything. I just concentrated in a small, small portion of that and yeah, like each day I’ll a couple of times a day just open the, the news and read what’s what’s happening.
Mary:
Have you been in touch with any of your university, friends or other friends and what, what they’re doing and feeling during this time
Peter:
I was talking to my university friends, but mostly about how we can make Molotov cocktails. I don’t know. We were talking that much about, about how do we feel, but we, we were donating some money and organizing all of that and I don’t know, it just, I’m gonna talk smart. I must leave out something that we need to do and how we can help, you know, that’s that kind of things.
Mary:
And so what are your thoughts these days about how you can help?
Peter:
Yeah, currently I, I spent some time working on the cyber front, this one of the things the second is I’m actually trying to donate some money, and I’m actually trying to understand what’s happening in Ukraine and in Russia and what we’re going to do next. It what we’ve got and that’s, that’s what I’m thinking right now. And to getting back topics articles and that kind of stuff.
Mary:
And are you working with anyone to try to figure this out or do you, are you, is it kind of a, an independent investigation?
Peter:
No it’s independent, actually that’s to be clear. I actually, what I mean is I’ve been watching interviews of Russian people and trying to understand the way of the way they think inter trying to talk to some Russian I was talking to actually, I’m trying to understand what they think, who just understand what’s going on in, in, in their hearts basically. And why, what percentage actual that’s not support what you know, and I’m trying to analyze all of that and trying to, to what, what what to do and what you going to do after, after all of that, we’ll end. What are we going to do with Russia in general?
Mary:
And have you,
Peter:
You know,
Mary:
Have you found much diversity among the people you’ve been corresponding with on Reddit?
Peter:
Yeah, I actually, I don’t talk too much. The diff tend, I don’t usually talk to in, in a that’s kind of stuff. I’m not really talking to people. It’s it’s really, I understand what what’s what’s
Peter:
What’s what, how propaganda influenced the way of thinking. I’m usually talking to people that are more or less understand what’s going on. Yeah. I would say that there are some diversity of meanings in Russia, but still, usually people in the west and then people that are not from Ukraine underestimates the amount of people that really supports what’s going on here, support regime supports the warrants, all of that, but still even pull it up against them more. They don’t really understand who started this world, even though there are some people that are real, that don’t support the war, they still don’t really have the understanding. The trust actually started that war and invaded Ukraine. Yeah. We have lots of different people Around the world about what’s going on and I think we need to share what we know and To help people understand what’s going on here.
Mary:
Peter, do you anticipate writing about this or speaking about it in some way? How do you think you’re going to convey what you’ve learned?
Peter:
Yeah, actually think to write something about that, but I will do that anonymously. So I’m not, I’m not really interested into, you know, doing some kind of speech or something. I was just thinking to write and to validate my thoughts with the people from Ukraine, from Russia, and to consolidate what’s to understand what is behind all of that on the ground. I would probably find ways.
Mary:
I think that sounds like a really wonderful idea. I have a question I hope I can articulate it clearly. Do you have a sense of whether or not there’s much of an intersection between how you were trained at university and how you are approaching the current situation by it’s in the way that you’re gathering information?
Peter:
That’s very interesting question that actually, I wouldn’t say that, that, that, that the way I’m approaching and analyzing the information, university, how much talking points on that? I think the influence on that that actually my, my, the, the whole industry, I would say not, not just university, but data science and all of that. I actually think my experience in general had some influence on that. I found that I also rely a lot on the numbers that, and I’m trying to be unbiased because it’s very important to be unbiased and not, not just a, in a data science report and, you know, doing something, you, you, you, you need to be unbiased and all of that. And to realizing all of that, you know, all of the facts and that’s why, when I’m doing all that, I feel that there are some similarities in my work. And yeah,
Mary:
So maybe what’s happening is you’re, you’re treating these various people in Russia as data points, Then I don’t know, but let me just play around with it. And that you’re treating what you see as propaganda as invalid data. Is that accurate
Peter:
I think most of that, I don’t, I don’t, I, I want to say that I’m having that approach of analyzing the data, but I, but usually makes a logic. And that’s why I mostly rely not on the data points and the, you know, the, the propaganda versus not propaganda or like information. I usually rely on the logic and the way I’m analyzing all that. And I’m trying to, to be, you know, unbiased and to be like on, on the facts and on the logic and the way I validate this fact. Yeah.
Mary:
So it’s within propaganda that you see illogical conclusions, correct? Yeah. Yeah. And that’s how you determine whether it’s true or not.
Peter:
Yeah.
Mary:
Okay. Cause one thing that’s really impressed me in our conversation is your ability to function and to stay even in the midst of a crisis. And perhaps that has something to do with the way you’ve been trained and the way your mind might naturally work.
Peter:
Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I’m, I’m the type of person I like science a lot actually. And that’s why I’m, I’m the type of person that will, with a cold mind analyze what’s happening. And I will not blame people for nothing, but if I just blame them based on the facts and logic, you know, that’s, that’s why I’m, I, I usually think
Mary:
So. What are your feelings right now towards Putin and the people who support him?
Peter:
Yeah, I, I have that. I’m not saying that these people are good or bad, I’m just saying they are sick and I, my view on all of that is actually not to try to, you know, to convince the world these people are bad, but just convince the world that these people are sick and should be treated as a sick people. We need to think what we going to do and what, how we can tackle, you know, that, that illness, you know, and that, yeah, yeah. Go ahead.
Mary:
And what are the symptoms and signs of their illness? How do you know they’re sick?
Peter:
Mostly I know that they are sick if they are alone in their thinking, because I can, when I debating with the people on the, I can find the logical mistakes and I usually show these mistakes to talk, where are you? They just don’t, you know, Because they see properly that just, this is can cannot be combined together. They’re just, there’s just weird way. And they’re just, okay. I just decided to stop the car and just, but I hope they, that they will change their mind if they logical mistakes in their way of thinking, because propaganda cannot be logical that there are some gaps in that.
Mary:
So, Peter, would you feel comfortable sharing one of those illogical thoughts that you have encountered?
Peter:
Yeah. One of that, for example, a very easy one is actually, well, is Crimea. I mean, who owns Crimea and a lot of Russians that are, you know, not like by the propaganda, they still don’t know that it’s like, Ramya, Crimeans like people who live in Crimea, they, they decide how they, these people who owns the most I’ll leave it on the Moscow, Moscow, what to do. We used to be the city, or there is some power, some kind of governance. That’s like the content and all of that. It’s not only about the people that leading index territories and that’s, and they can’t answer that question. Some of them are trying to answer and then still find some logical mistakes in their way of thinking. But yeah, they, some of them don’t realize that borders actually matters about the people living in that territory. Yeah. That’s, that’s the, the main ideas that I’m trying to explain people, if countries agreed on the borders, it should stay as they agreed because there’ll be a lot of problems if one country decides to change the borders and
Mary:
Are there any other thoughts you would like to share before we end our conversation?
Peter:
Yeah the only thought I wanted to share, don’t actually for the people that are not in Ukrainians understand that situation, that Y confidently think that it’s only, only Putin, doing all that, you know, but it’s really important to understand a lot of Russians influence on that, there are a lot of support from the Russians, Historically it’s for people to understand no, some things related to the history of Ukraine and Russia to really understand and be confident in the statements that people usually use that only blame Putin, that kinda stuff.
Peter:
My, my thought is actually to, um, a lot of Russians, as same as me, want to have Russia as a real democracy, you know, not as an authoritarian country, because, you know, it’s kind of dangerous to have an authoritarian country especially close to your border. If you’re talking about Ukraine and we need to make Russia democracy, and maybe Democracy may be Collapsed like two small pieces and some of them, and these pieces will be like small democratic countries, maybe. So basically I just want to say that we need to make Russia as a country, a democracy, and maybe the way of doing that is to actually like destroy everything and build from, from the very beginning. I don’t know. I think to bump, not the way I’m thinking, but we need to, to make people start from the blank paper. And maybe sanctions, maybe even the personal sanctions when we say so I will watch that kind of stuff. Just stop this Russian culture from, and you’ll, you’ll, you’ll be able to stop that somehow. So I I’m still thinking on that behind all of that is that Russians should start from the blank paper. That’s that’s what, what, what my thought is, is they need to start from the blank paper, to build a real democracy.
Mary:
Right? All right. I wish you the very best as you piece together, your thoughts and put it in writing. And I hope you find a very effective platform. Peter, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.
Peter:
Thank you.