Heroes of Doxy.me: Survivor’s Guilt and Keeping Busy
Liza Zhukova was staying in a doxy.me apartment in western Ukraine when the invasion started. Being relatively safe in the west, she didn’t experience the same challenges at the beginning of the war as many of her friends and colleagues did. Since then, Liza has struggled with survivor’s guilt, and has volunteered every day to help her people in whatever ways she can.
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Mary Johnston:
Tell me what life was like for you and your friends and your family in the weeks before February 24th.
Liza Zhukova:
It was as usual in general, but it was tension in the air because of all the news. Plus I guess I had more information than my surrounding because our American colleagues started talking about possible danger months ago. And in the beginning for us, it was surreal. We were like, no, it’s not going to happen. Come on guys. It’s just news. It’s political. So all of ourAmericans colleagues were really worried while we in Ukraine were chilled, but because they started trading this topic indoxy, me, we here in Ukraine started creating a plan in case of invasion. And for last two months operation team and me, we were actually taking steps. So we had stages in this plan. And the last stage would be if Russia, invades, Ukraine, and you know, whenever we had meetings to discuss the plan, it was real. We were discussing it, but we never believed that it would actually happen.
Liza Zhukova:
And while I had that information, I will talk to my family because my dad is located in the east of Ukraine. And I will talk to him like, dad, listen, it’s possible. I wanna know what will be your plan because I’m in cave and you’re in the east, you’re in more danger, but he would be like, it’s not going to happen. I don’t have a plan. I’m staying here. This is my home. If they come, they come them. And I said, okay, I respect your opinion. I myself saw that the moment something happened, I would fly away. But it became actually opposite. I now have a chance to go anywhere I want in the world. And I choose to stay. My mom leaves in Germany for last five years. So I have family there and I can live there. They say they can pick me up from Poland any time.
Liza Zhukova:
So I have that option at the moment, but I prefer to stay in Lviv this time. As for my friends close one, I was also talking to them saying like, let’s make a plan. What are you going to do? And they denied. They said, we’re not going to talk about it. Like, don’t say crazy things. It’s not going to happen. Why are you creating panic? They ignored. They ignored this topic. No one believed in it. So this is how sedation was. And then I guess the last week, the last few days before the war, the tension was more intense because of the news. But still we didn’t believe it will happen. No one was ready.
Mary Johnston:
How does your father feel now?
Liza Zhukova:
So we call each other every morning. Now he’s city where I’m from. Neupro, it’s actually a kind of safe comparison towhat’s happening in Kiev. So everything works in the city, transport shops. They have people coming from other areasand they host them. So my dad is a work. He still works because he works in some important governmental organizations, which I’m not going to name. And he has to come there every day. And I know that the military gave them extra exactly to that office and they even get gave them guns. So my dad sent me a picture that he has a gun now. And he, apart fromwork, he’s volunteering to, they have to feed people who came from other areas and found housing for them. So he’s whenI’m asking him how he feels. He’s very positive. He has great sense of humor. So he says like, we’re ready if I’m here, we’re gonna fight. We’re not going anywhere.
Mary Johnston:
Wow. How do you feel about his response?
Liza Zhukova:
I am very proud of him and it’s also one of the reasons I’m choosing to stay. If my dad is here and he’s ready to protect home, then I’m going to stay as well and do whatever I can.
Mary Johnston:
Do you think that part of the Ukrainian spirit is because of the invasion of eight years ago? Like how do you explain this fervor in your country?
Liza Zhukova:
I would say it’s chain of events, starting from the revolution that we had in 2014. Yes. And even before that, but I think only now we’re actually fully waking up as a nation and feeling it. Yeah. Eight years ago, I was also taking part in those events. I would go to my dance. I would volunteer there. But at that time, not all of my friends would support that. There were still people who would say, I’m not interested in politic, but now everyone, everyone is proud that they’reUkrainians. They wanna stay in the country. They want to protect the country. So it was chain of events. And now we alllike trying to analyze the difference between Ukrainians and Russians, because for a long period of time, and still now people are saying that, oh, you guys are very similar. You’re brothers. And there are lots of evidence that not, we are not the same.
Liza Zhukova:
The mindset is different because Ukrainians, we, when we don’t like something, we like to say right away, we like to create a size, everything, even like, we don’t do anything about it. But just having the chance to say, I don’t like the mayor, the streets are bad. This house needs renovation. No one is doing things just to have the talk is a part of our culture. So freedom is essential for us. And now we see that during these 30 years of independence, we were moving towards more freedom in Ukraine while Russia was moving away from that. And now they cannot talk on the, they cannot go on the streets. Cause I have family in Russia as well. And I have family in Belarus and I have family in east Ukraine, which is the occupied territory.
So my cousin is in Belarus. He’s the same age as me. And we talk on Instagram. He sees news from my page because he says there is no independent media in Belarus. So he handled learning news from Ukrainian channels. And he said that it’s scary, quiet there because people are afraid to say anything. He wants some extra food. Sohe prepares for the worst, my relatives in Russia, they they’re all supplied. They don’t support it. They don’t support this war, but they also wouldn’t be able to share their opinion online or in their cities. So they quiet. And I also have family in the east Ukraine, which is occupied by Russia for these last eight years. And there is my uncle and my cousin, and they have been hiding at home because of mobilization. So Russia is trying to gather man in that area to fight against Ukraine. So now they’re trying to find a way to send my cousin somewhere outside, like Turkey or somewhere, they cannot go to Ukraine. Now they can only go to Russia. And then from Russia goes somewhere else. So it’s, it’s a really complicated situation there.
Mary Johnston:
I’m curious how you manage the intensity of the emotion you must be feeling about what’s happening right now.
Liza Zhukova:
I guess, because we prepared for this. We had to plan what we did. We rented an apartment and leave big one, a four. And it’s like, Doxy.me hub in Lviv. Now we rented it two weeks before the war started. And I was a coordinator for that. So I’m departed to leave 14th of February. I, I packed for three weeks. So I saw that I’m going to stay in the for three weeks, make sure that that Hubba has ever seen, we need. And then my colleague will come stay next three weeks. And we’re going to keep this help for a few months and see how it goes. The purpose of the hub was to, in case of invasion for people to stay, to work and then look for another apartments, like anything you need, you can come to the hub. So in my mind, I already knew that I’m going to be in Lviv for a while.
Liza Zhukova:
I packed accordingly. I had time to pack properly. I took everything I needed and I came to leave and I spent a week peaceful week here. I have friends here. So I had some social life. I get used to the hub, to the apartment. So for me it was not a rash decision to leave my home immediately. I think that’s why mentally it was easier for me than for others. And now I’m leaving with a feeling that I’m just staying a bit longer in Lviv than I planned. I don’t have a feeling that I lost my home. And I know that my building in key is still safe because I’m in contact with my neighbor. I know that my apartment is there, it’s safe, but I just don’t know what, when I will be able to come back. And every day we have here, a lot of things happening when we volunteer in helping the team. So mine is busy, I guess also that helps me. I keep myself busy. I work, I help people. And I don’t have time to think about the future because I’m too afraid to think about that.
Mary Johnston:
Yeah. So describe to me what you do during the day.
Liza Zhukova:
So first week I was all the time on the phone because we had 50 people in Ukraine and I, me and my colleagues for operation team, we were in charge of making sure everyone is safe. We were constantly in communication with them. Checking, did they leave home? Where are they now? What if they’re on the border? Did they manage to leave the country? And so on? So first two weeks, it was very busy. Now we were constantly checking on everyone and I would bein the hub buying some extra bedding blankets towels, because people were come in just when we’re small suitcase, they didn’t plan to take a lot of things. So I was going to big shopping center. I remember one, it was, I think second or third day, one of my colleagues, he had the car, we got in the car and we went to a big shopping center and there were helicopters above us, just like flying. They were like Ukrainian military helicopters. It was, but we felt like the, all thatemotions that something is happening, even like we’re safe. But seeing this military helicopters just flying over theshopping center, it was, it was scary.
Liza Zhukova:
But because of my past, as a flight attendant, I was a flight attendant for five years. And because of all the training we had there, I kind of have this strengths when you put yourself together and you do things to help. And you know that ifsomething happened, you can help. Like you can be in charge. Cause we, we had first aid training, we had firefighting training, a lot of things. So as a flight attendant, every time you go for a flight, you know that you’re in charge of 30 lives on board. You’re the only one who can help them in case of anything. So that’s what I realized during this sedation inUkraine that I, I have that something in me that even if I’m scared going and doing things and helping and trying to figure out the next step. Now I shifted more to doxy me because I realized that I have to keep working, to spend my money inUkraine to pay taxes, to support the economy in the beginning because we all have a little bit of guilt.
Liza Zhukova:
Like how can I just go by sayings when people are fighting? How can I just go have coffee when so many people need help. But now I’m shifting that. Okay. It’s good. That life goes on. Leave now is full of people because a lot of people from the east moved here, so restaurants are open. Coffee shops are open. You can buy, you can go to the shopping center. And yesterday I was in the city, it was crowded and it’s good to see. So people are not scared. They go out, they spend money, they support the economy. Life goes on.
Mary Johnston:
What kind of volunteer work do you do?
Liza Zhukova:
So there is a big help center in the, the city center. You have to register there because a lot of people wants to do it. So you have to register a day before then you come, they check that you’re in the list and they tell you where the people needed. It’s a three floor building. Last time I was sorting clothes. So then the center receives all the humanitarian aid from everywhere. Then we unpack all the boxes and you have to sort out, you bring food to one floor. If it’s closest to another floor shoes and so on and so on, it’s like huge machine and it’s all on volunteers. And when you’re there, you think like, okay, this has to be controlled somehow and be prepared and building. But what is great about Ukrainians that we can organize ourself very fast if it’s like for, for the country. So somehow we all like immediately like, okay, let’s do something. So I would sort out clothes. You open the box and it can be like kids, clothes, women, clothes. Men’s every single together. You just put it into different piles. Then another floor that has already this sorted out clothes. So people who came from other areas without clothes, just, you know, they grabbed their kids, they took the train, they arrived inVive. They would come to the center. They would go to that floor and we would pack clothes for them.
Mary Johnston:
And then do they usually stay in Levine for the time being
Liza Zhukova:
And the moment? Yeah, I guess it’s half a million. The last time I checked, I’m not sure, but a lot of people arrived and leave organized centers in theaters, in schools, they used any building. They could organize shelters. Most of the women with kids, they’re leaving to Poland and nearest countries, but man, they used to the military lowered the moment they can’t leave the country. So they stay here and they volunteer or just keep working. So there are still a lot of men in Ukraine who are not in the army, but at the same time they cannot leave the country yet.
Mary Johnston:
Would you be willing to take up arms and fight?
Liza Zhukova:
I thought about that. I was thinking recently about how, you know, Israeli army, they have this image of a very strong and they take women as well. So I saw if something like this would be in Ukraine, maybe I would join because now there is huge interest to the army and military art because of the events we all read the news and we want to know, okay, what does this word mean? What is this rocket mean? And I’ve always considered myself, very peaceful person. But Now, because it’s my home, there are a lot of feelings arises and I know some people judge and say like, why are you so angry? You cannot hate everyone in Russia. You know, there are a lot of opinions like that. But when I seen use, when I see those images and I know that area in cave and I see that it’s destroyed, then yeah. I become very angry. And I think if situation would happen that I have to fight, I will do.
Mary Johnston:
So you didn’t know that about yourself even two weeks ago, right?
Liza Zhukova:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Johnston:
Yeah. What, what other things have surprised you?
Liza Zhukova:
And that’s how we unite as nation and how the whole world is helping us in that all the foreigner friends I had, they messaged me during the first few days from all over the world. And they, everyone said you can come stay at my place. So that was So important to know that everyone knows what’s happening. Everyone is here for us yet. It still seems like our war, that other countries are not joining the actual war on. There’s a lot of politics. There are a lot of processes that is happening on that higher level. And yeah, the point it makes me really sad. I feel helpless that It’s 20, 22. And we had so many international organization and their job is to keep the world safe. And now it doesn’t seem to help. But if you look from the point of view of just my friends, all over the world, or just like people in Poland, in Germany, they doing whatever they can, like my mom in Germany, she’s also volunteering. So it seems like she’s baking things in Germany and I’m unpacking them in the Ukraine here.
Mary Johnston:
And what are her thoughts about you’re staying in Ukraine?
Liza Zhukova:
She respects my decision from time to time, she checks on me saying like, I still stay in. Do you want to come? She said, whenever you change your mind, we will pick you up from the border. We’ll give you housing, everything you need, butshe understands why I’m staying.
Mary Johnston:
Tell me what you think the hardest part of this has been for you?
Liza Zhukova:
Hm.
Liza Zhukova:
The hardest part I think is that it’s called, I think the guilt of survives survival when you’re safe and you have place to sleep and you watch news and you know what people are going through and you feel that guilt also feeling helpless that this is so unfair. This is so sad and why it’s still going on. It’s been 20 days. How come all these powerful people in theworld cannot stop it. So dealing with that and not knowing when this will end, when I will be able to come back to my home and will my home will be safe. So this the hardest things,
Mary Johnston:
And it sounds like the way you’ve managed that is to work and volunteer and try to enjoy some simple pleasures.
Liza Zhukova:
Yes, I’m exactly like going. Cause I’m grateful that I have community here. It’s my friends. They are also ex flight attendant, common ground. My colleagues from doxy, me and having people around it really helps. I see the difference that, you know, we gather in the evening, we laugh, we, we share dinner, we talk about news. We support each other, we hug. And that’s also one of the reasons why I’m not leaving at the moment because here I can share this sorrow with my people. And I know if I go to Europe or somewhere else and live, there just goes on as usual people, even if they help and then understand what’s going on, it’s not happening to their country. Right. It’s helped for them. It’s just happened in somewhere in Europe. So that would be hard for me not to have the community, to share these emotions.
Mary Johnston:
Liza, is there anything else you’d like to share?
Liza Zhukova:
I would like to thank doxy.me for the support. All the colleagues were texting us, checking on us, constantly asking how they can help Brandon, our CEO. He came to Ukraine. It was last week. He flew from us to Poland and then he came to leave. He brought a munition, he brought some humanitarian aids. He visited our hub and that was incredible. The entire team in Ukraine, we were so grateful and inspired by him. Like it’s very brave. And he showed that he’s with us, that weare one family that sexually like our culture in doxy me that’s. And even during this time he showed that yeah, we are onefamily. So this was great. So I want to thank Brandon doxy, me and everyone in the company for their support.
Mary Johnston:
Wonderful. It sounds like you have three families, your, your, your birth family, well, maybe more friends, your family have flight attendants and doxy me and then your fellow communion. All of those people are helping you be brave.
Liza Zhukova:
Yes. People is everything. Especially like this time you realize you can have a lot of money, but if you need an apartment and leave, it doesn’t matter. You need connections. You need to know someone to host you or to help you with an apartment. So I was very grateful as well to have all of my families with me.
Mary Johnston:
You know, Brandon told me the story yesterday of how he managed to get from Poland to Levine and all of the steps involved, miraculous connections with people. It wasn’t money. It was people.
Liza Zhukova:
Yeah.
Mary Johnston:
So Lisa, thank you so, so much for sharing your story.
Liza Zhukova:
Thank you. Thank you for night questions